Vector Re-core Material List

[bhbestcustoms]

First off I would like to begin with saying HELLO, it has been quite some time since I have been on the forum... For anyone wondering last update on my restoration thread I think was 2013. Everything came to a stop and has been sitting since.. I know.. I know shame on me. I hope everyone has been doing well especially during this tough time but we need to all stay positive and stay safe. With all these lock-downs happening I have had time to start thinking about my poor old Vector of mine.

I am looking to gather a list of material needed to complete the recore on my 1974 Vector so I can start looking for sites to order everything as I am hoping to begin work in a couple months time and would like to have the most if not all the supplies I will need. I am located in Canada N.B so if anyone does have some recommendations on Canadian sites to purchase materials would be greatly appreciated as well.

I am certainly a newbie when it comes to fiberglass work but willing to learn. I would love some advice from all of you on any tips or tricks, what the proper layer structure should be for the new core and anything else you feel that would be good to know.

We are looking to continue with our original plan with the boat and that is a Balsa or equivalent core set up as to factory spec. With some additional support as seen on many builds here with knee braces and corner braces. (Properly over kill) but want to make sure she is solid.

How many gallons of resin did you use? What kind of resin is recommended?

How many sheets of balsa was needed for full recore?

What did you use for fiber glass? How much of each kind?

Any other material or things needed? I have seen many threads talk about cabosil and some other names that I am not too sure what they were referring to or what it is used for.

I am very excited to get back to work on my Vector as it has been way to long out of the water. I have been reading all the threads on here to get better Idea of what the best way is to restore this fantastic boat, as well as share the rebuild with everyone. I always appreciate your feedback and recommendations. I may ask lots of questions so i hope no one gets to annoyed with me

Thank you

[AdamDK]

Welcome back. I'm in (well, near...) Toronto, so I may not be able to help you with local suppliers - all my stuff came from the GTA.
Composites Canada in Mississauga seems to be the big player around here. And their prices seem to have been the cheapest in any of the Southern Ontario stores I had to research.

https://shop.compositescanada.com/#/home

I'm redoing a Viper (15'), which is essentially the same hull as a Vector (17'), except with 2 feet deleted from the nose. I easily went through 5 gallons just laying down glass in the hull after stripping out the core and grinding it down. With my new transom in, and a bit of core laid down, I think I've used about 8 gallons so far. You definitely need to account for waste when determining how much you'll need. @Hippie459MN will tell you he used 15 gallons in his 20' Vulture.

In terms of resins, it's all about your budget. These boats used polyester, which is cheapest. Vinylester is more expensive, but has apparently better chemical properties than poly.
Epoxy is the way to go if money is no object.
I'm using Vinylester on the majority of my rebuild, but also using regular polyester resin in conjunction with ATC CoreBond when vacuum bagging my balsa core.

I purchased ten 2x4ft scored half-inch balsa sheets (with stitchmat backing) for my core. I figured I'd only need 7 or 8, but bought a couple extra in case I screwed up. I plan on using the remainder on the underside of my bow deck.

For glass, I've used 1.5oz chopped strand mat and 1708 biaxial. Again, you need to account for waste & mistakes.

Cabosil (fumed silica) is a thickening agent you mix into resin, usually along with milled glass fibers. The slang for this mixture is "peanut butter".

There are lots of threads in the Restorations, WIP, Makeover section, mine included. Pick a day when you got lots of time on your hands to read,read,read.

Some key things to read would be Ron Pratt's Viper rebuild here.
http://www.hydrostream.org/Topic.htm

My rebuild (because naturally I'm biased)
https://www.hydrostreamforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2773

tnelson77's Viking:
https://www.hydrostreamforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3523

Hippie's Vulture:
https://www.hydrostreamforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1171

proprider's Viper (which I'm also getting inspiration from)
https://www.hydrostreamforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2090

There are older threads with good info, but sadly, most of the pictures don't work as the majority of them were hosted on Photobucket and they're gone now.

Happy reading!

[bhbestcustoms]

@AdamDK Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. That is some great information that has and will help me out a lot. I was certainly not expecting to have to use so much resin. I am certainly not on an endless budget especially as I am back as a student again, but want to make sure I dont skimp out either. I have waited this many years to rebuild my vector and want to make sure I make it the best it can be and something that will last many years to come.
I have just finished up reading Ron Pratts thread as well as yours.

Have to say you are doing an amazing job so far and cant wait to see some updates in the near future. Your thread has given me many ideas that I never even considered. I did not have any intention of splitting the hull ( mostly because when I joined back in 2012 everyone advised me not to lol) but maybe something I should consider? Looks like it would give much better access and room to work.

Do you have a rough idea of how much 1.5oz CSM and 1708 biaxle I should expect to use? or at least a good starting point to order. I see you grounded down any fiberglass that has been cured before laying over again. What is the recommended grit to use to ensure proper bond?

Where exactly would you use "peanut butter" from some of the threads I have seen I am under the impression it is basically used in a similar way as body filler would be in cars? but actually has some structural strength to it to fill any voids/transitions?

Is there a particular reason you chose to use corebond over just laying with fiberglass and resin?

My goal is to get all my materials priced and ordered over the next month in hope to start the restoration back up in hopes early to mid May. I apologize for all the questions as I said when it comes to boats I am certainly a newbie but greatly appreciate any and all help from anyone here. Time to get back to reading some more restoration threads! lol.

Thank you,
Brad

[AdamDK]

@AdamDK Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. That is some great information that has and will help me out a lot. I was certainly not expecting to have to use so much resin. I am certainly not on an endless budget especially as I am back as a student again, but want to make sure I dont skimp out either. I have waited this many years to rebuild my vector and want to make sure I make it the best it can be and something that will last many years to come.
I have just finished up reading Ron Pratts thread as well as yours.

Have to say you are doing an amazing job so far and cant wait to see some updates in the near future. Your thread has given me many ideas that I never even considered. I did not have any intention of splitting the hull ( mostly because when I joined back in 2012 everyone advised me not to lol) but maybe something I should consider? Looks like it would give much better access and room to work.

I split the hull because my rubrail was pretty beat up, and I like the look of a black rubber rubrail better than aluminum anyways. So it was no big deal for me to "lose" it.

Do you have a rough idea of how much 1.5oz CSM and 1708 biaxle I should expect to use? or at least a good starting point to order.

Depends on width you get. Most glass is sold by the yard (3ft) and either 38" or 50" width. For a 17' Vector, you should order at least 30 yards of CSM. 90 feet may seem ridiculous, but its not considering 1 single layer of glass in your hull would eat up 34 feet. Same goes for 1708. You need to keep in mind that along with glassing the hull first after grinding, you'll then need to glass over top of all the core you lay down. You'll be using glass between your transom layers. Over the transom and out each side and at the bottom of it. Over the stringers. Glassing both sides of the floor. (Yes, you should glass the underside of the floor as well). Glassing the deck (if you choose to do so).

The one thing I learned about rebuilding this boat is that whatever you think you may need, multiply it by 3. Probably 4.

I see you grounded down any fiberglass that has been cured before laying over again. What is the recommended grit to use to ensure proper bond?

Roughest possible. The brazed cup wheel I used is 36 grit. Flap discs are quite common too. Try to stay coarser than 60 grit. It was simply inconvenient timing when I started my glass work, and since I could no longer get a chemical bond due to the time that elapsed, I had to re-grind for a mechanical bond.

Where exactly would you use "peanut butter" from some of the threads I have seen I am under the impression it is basically used in a similar way as body filler would be in cars? but actually has some structural strength to it to fill any voids/transitions?

Not so much structural strength. Resin itself is brittle. The majority of use for "peanut butter" is filling voids, etc, but also to make a curved edge along right angles. Fiberglass is still glass, and doesn't like hard bends. PB would be used to give a curve at say the bottom of a stringer where it meets the hull, so the glass can be laid on the bottom and then curve up the side of a stringer.

Is there a particular reason you chose to use corebond over just laying with fiberglass and resin?

It was @alaskastreamin Ron Pratt's suggestion. He swears by it, and since I wanted to rebuild my Viper similar to his, with Frankenstein-ing some of @proprider's ideas, It seemed the best choice. I asked that question myself here: https://www.hydrostreamforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2922

My goal is to get all my materials priced and ordered over the next month in hope to start the restoration back up in hopes early to mid May. I apologize for all the questions as I said when it comes to boats I am certainly a newbie but greatly appreciate any and all help from anyone here. Time to get back to reading some more restoration threads! lol.

Thank you,
Brad

[Hippie459MN]

I know my material costs is from about 6-8 years ago but including the 15 gallons of resin I bought, the core, marine grade plywood (3 - 1/2 inch 4x8 sheets), the CMS, 1708, etc... I think I had about $1500 into materials. And that did my core, floor, stringers, and transom, and decked over my splashwell.

You can see my rebuild topic in my signiture. I didnt split the deck from the hull and its not needed really but it does make doing the core job a lot easier but again, a lot more time consuming taking the deck off and having to put it back on, straight. If you do remove it, a jig for the hull is an absolute must otherwise things can get out of shape and the deck might not go back on straight.

Also, post up some pictures!

[AdamDK]

@Hippie459MN
He's got a thread with pics here:
https://www.hydrostreamforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1924
from almost 8 years ago!

@bhbestcustoms

Upon looking at pics of your Vector, that rubrail is not original. They either put that over top the original riveted aluminum rubrail, or the deck has previously been removed.
Any way to look underneath it and see what's there? Looks like they just screwed it in?

[bhbestcustoms]

@Hippie459MN Surprisingly even though that was so many years ago with some quick quotes I have been getting looks like I will be around similar price, well just over $2000 CAD which is roughly $1500 USD. I have a fair bigger budget then I did back in 2012 when I started this rebuild at around 14-15 years old, and just one year prior to that spending all my money to buy it not knowing what I was getting my self into .

That is an excellent point about the extra time evolved to split the hull and making sure everything stays true. I do not think I will be removing it at this point but will have to do take a closer look. As @AdamDK mentioned above I do have a thread you may remember back from 2012 when I first discovered how bad the boat was. I will be sure to start posting back in that thread once I get back to work on the boat. It is currently about an hours drive away in a portable shelter where it has been in hibernation for the past 7 ish years. Time to open her up and get to work!

I may have got a bit distracted with cars once I got my drivers license and well started a small collection of them over those years, but after returning back to school and selling off a couple of cars from my collection its time to get the vector back to life!

@AdamDK You are certainly right that is far from the oem rub rail. I am not 100% sure but I do not believe the oem one is under it, if I can remember correctly from a small miss hap with a slightly to fast vector pulling in to a dock messed up the corner pretty good. ( had to temporary silicone that rub rail back down) lol They used stainless self tapping screws and looks like they went right into the side of the boat. Once I dig out the boat and start work I will be sure to rip that off and inspect it further to see what kind of mess I may have. If I remember right it looked to be a garden hose that was sliced That reminds me I will add a new rub rail to the list of needed parts. Ill be sure to get some much better pictures of everything and update my build thread once I get started.

Quick question as well I noticed on composites canada they list several different vinylester resins, any idea what I should be looking for exactly haha I may have to reach to them and see if they have some information about them.

[AdamDK]

You should definitely enquire first about shipping costs if ordering from Composites Canada.

I googled a bit over the weekend for fiberglass /marine supply shops in NB but didn't have much luck. I did find one in Dartmouth/Halifax named Burnside. They have a storefront, but not much info on their website about what exactly they offer.
https://www.fiberglassmarinesupply.com/
Google maps says it's a 4 hour drive. I know the thought of spending an entire day driving seems shitty, but it might be something to consider. A full tank of gas will probably still be cheaper than shipping costs, especially if you need to make multiple orders.
Save up some cash and drive there and buy as much material as you can afford. 10 gallons of resin, a liter of MEKP catalyst, 40 yards of 1.5oz chopped strand mat, 30 yards of 1708 biaxial, at least 8 sheets of 1/2" 24"x48" scrimmed/scored balsa. I don't know if Burnside carries all that, you'd have to call ahead.
I read online that Kent Building Supplies carries or carried marine-grade plywood. You'll probably have to call around to find a store that has it in stock. You'll only need 1 sheet for your transom....your stringers and floor and any other structural wood you install wont have direct contact with water, so you can go with exterior-grade mahogany plywood.

Hope this helps.

[AdamDK]

This is the VE resin I've been using.

https://shop.compositescanada.com/#/product/AOCF010-CNP-25-X5

[bhbestcustoms]

You should definitely enquire first about shipping costs if ordering from Composites Canada.

I googled a bit over the weekend for fiberglass /marine supply shops in NB but didn't have much luck. I did find one in Dartmouth/Halifax named Burnside. They have a storefront, but not much info on their website about what exactly they offer.
https://www.fiberglassmarinesupply.com/
Google maps says it's a 4 hour drive. I know the thought of spending an entire day driving seems shitty, but it might be something to consider. A full tank of gas will probably still be cheaper than shipping costs, especially if you need to make multiple orders.
Save up some cash and drive there and buy as much material as you can afford. 10 gallons of resin, a liter of MEKP catalyst, 40 yards of 1.5oz chopped strand mat, 30 yards of 1708 biaxial, at least 8 sheets of 1/2" 24"x48" scrimmed/scored balsa. I don't know if Burnside carries all that, you'd have to call ahead.
I read online that Kent Building Supplies carries or carried marine-grade plywood. You'll probably have to call around to find a store that has it in stock. You'll only need 1 sheet for your transom....your stringers and floor and any other structural wood you install wont have direct contact with water, so you can go with exterior-grade mahogany plywood.

Hope this helps.

Wow you are good! You are right, I have been very concerned about shipping costs as it seems it could get very expensive from many sites I have been looking at for prices, especially when it comes to the heavy stuff like the resin. I have had similar issues finding local suppliers at least in N.B area but for some reason never thought about looking on the outskirts like Halifax, Nova Scotia area. I will definitely give them a call and see how much they carry. May be well worth the drive and could be much cheaper and quicker also. That is if I have the opportunity to. We are not allowed to leave New Brunswick right now due to the Covid-19 all the provincial boarders are closed. Hopefully things will start to relax in the near future but in the mean time I will start calling. I truly appreciate your help and going above and beyond, making me feel much more confident starting this restoration again!